'A good friend.' At first he thinks Fitz is being sarcastic, but as he goes on, he actually finds himself agreeing. Just because he was born a defective monster doesn't mean he has to act like it.
Not yet, anyway. He's obviously still a time bomb. But as long as he's on this ship, all he can do is delay the inevitable disaster. Not out of hope of salvation or fear of annihilation, but simply because he's morbidly curious to see if he can endure long enough to graduate an inmate and get a deal.
Tik-Tok would call him a miserable slave, but Tik-Tok is just another Gilgamesh trying to manipulate him. He won't fall for it.
"That's why I said I couldn't argue against it if it's all that makes you happy. It's actually logical to me. It'd only be emotional if you were being overly hasty." He honestly can't tell with Fitz.
He still doesn't believe the Doctor is good or that Fitz wouldn't hang around him if he were evil, but he keeps quiet about that for now.
"I do get it. I know it might not seem like it, but I've traveled with him for five years." Or an entire lifetime, these things can be complicated. "I didn't actually walk into the ship and then decided then and there that I wanted to spend the rest of my life like that. Honestly, it took me a pretty long time to warmup to him." His brief smile is nostalgic, with a twist of irony because it's not exactly pleasant irony.
"Which wasn't particularly his fault. I know it's hard to imagine, but I wasn't actually very good at making friends, back then." A little sarcastic, but also completely honest. "I was also way more of a dick. The two were related, yes, but the not having friends bit was more the reason than the consequence. Hell, meeting who you did on that other ship, you probably got a bit of a look at what I was like." The full on evil and cult stuff is new and different in the worst of ways, but the disdainful misanthropy and treating every conversation as a battle to be won...
"Traveling with the Doctor - it saved my life, and it gave me a life worth living."
He shakes his head, coming back to the present. "But, believe me, it took time."
"But you've had a difficult life." It's what the other Fitz explained. "You weren't given many opportunities, so if traveling with the Doctor is the only thing that's made you happy so far, it doesn't mean it's the only way you can ever be happy."
Maybe with hard work, Fitz could change his negative state of mind, develop healthier habits, and become content with life without the Doctor. But maybe not. There do exist some truly hopeless cases: himself, for instance. And he's not convinced Fitz isn't another one.
"Yeah, a lot of it was awful." And difficult, and he has no more interest in putting in the hard work of trying to change his state of mind now than he had interest in putting in hard work and trying to get something different back then.
"But, while basically better in every respect, there's one way that traveling with the Doctor is like being on the Barge, it allows you to experience whole new worlds. Except for real, not made up or the weird society of this ship. You get people here who clearly have never conceived of anything other than how they lived, and so this is all a big revelation. I wasn't that stunted, but a comparison can be made."
"Most of the people here have had terrible lives, but I don't know if it's helpful to compare yourself to them. Everyone has their own unique circumstances and temperament."
He has no idea why Fitz is suddenly talking about other people on the Barge.
"Yeah, luckily I don't have to care about that. I'd say 'except when they try to make it my problem', but I still don't care. But I'm not talking about that. What I mean is - take someone like you, right. Extremely fucking weird lifestyle as child assassin for the Church who thinks that horror films are what could be bad for you, and then you have some period of time where you experience a life where that insane thing didn't happen and you could go 'huh'."
"You mean that breach?" He scoffs and crosses his arms, shaking his head. "You've misunderstood. The Church didn't make me this way. I was always like this, and it's why I became an assassin so young in the first place. No one made me do it. It was quite the opposite, in fact."
Now he understands. Fitz is just trying to change the subject—and it's working.
"It wasn't all I did either. My father originally wanted me to be a scholar, so I also studied and went to university." When he was 12. "After that, I traveled."
And not just on missions to kill mages. He had a privileged life, with a loving father and many opportunities.
"Yeah, okay, you can see how if that's the case it would still be - equally bad, right? If you look at a ten year old and are like, that kid would be a good assassin, the responsible next step is to go, okay, so what can I do to help that no longer be the case."
He shakes his head.
"I'm not saying you wouldn't be fucked up without that, I'm saying that that doesn't have a bearing on whether or not it was wrong to have a kid do that. By which I mean it was definitely wrong."
"I'm sure I could offer up plenty of arguments in support of your point. Which doesn't change my point about it being and insane and fucked up thing that you seem to think isn't a blatant sign of parental failure."
The Church does a lot of things that are wrong, and it doesn't sound like Kirei's dad had been any better.
His expression darkens. "I understand it's easy to look at me and call my father a failure, but I assure you, it's not his fault."
He gives Fitz an icy look and explains, "He was already over fifty years old when I was born. He had no other children, no other hope of an heir. He wanted me to be a scholar, a researcher like himself, but instead I chose to chase war zones and test God. Do you think he was thrilled about that? Do you think he didn't try to control me or tell me 'no?' Do you imagine I was a particularly easy child to deal with? Do you think you'd do any better with such a child?"
He literally cringes, thinking about his past self.
"I just did what I wanted. There was nothing he could do about it, so he saw what he wanted to see because he loved me."
"Well, first off, I wasn't calling your father a failure because I'm looking at you. I said that it was fucked up for him to let a ten year old be a secret assassin for the Church. Which is true, no matter the rest of it. I mean, I don't think I'd do particularly well with a child, which is why I don't have any. There's a lot of responsibilities in having a kid, and I don't find 'having an heir' a compelling point."
In fact, he would list that as a fucked up reason to have a kid, personally.
"Being fucked up doesn't mean he didn't love you. Hell, I don't even think the fact that he constructed a version of you that wasn't overly accurate means he didn't love you, though I don't know if you'd agree with me on that one. Everyone does that, to greater or lesser extent."
"He didn't let me do anything." How many times does he have to explain? He just did it. If it wasn't more of a source of tension, it's because of the misunderstanding.
... And because Risei was a man of deep faith, who trusted God to keep Kirei safe. But he can guess what Fitz would say about that.
"As for whether or not he still would have loved me if he'd known the truth, I'll never know."
There's regret on his face, as well as slowly unspooling rage. He wanted to be the one to kill him. That was true during the breach, and it was true in real life too.
"If he'd gone to the Church and said 'I don't want my son doing this', or, even, 'I don't want my son doing this until he's fifteen', what would they have done?"
It's a genuine question, he can imagine a number of different responses, depending on time and place and number of secret murder branches the Church has.
"Also, just going back a moment, putting you aside, were are agreed that using 'normal' kids as assassins is wrong, right?"
"I can see a case being made for teenagers, depending on the culture and context, but short of truly desperate circumstances, ten seems way too young for that type of work."
Himself aside.
The other question is a little more complicated.
"The Church doesn't just rip children from the arms of their parents, if that's what you're wondering. They normally wouldn't want children as young as I was, but I proved myself by completing the training. After that, it was entirely up to me what I wanted to do. If my father had gone to them before that and said he forbid it, though? I honestly don't know. I can't even say for sure that he didn't."
"My father worked for one of the secret departments of the Church, so I always knew about magic and the supernatural. I was also born with magic circuits, which is considered special and a gift. Those of us who can summon the Black Keys are considered viable candidates for the training."
"You know, I take back what I said before. In that specific situation, I do think I'd do better with a kid. Because I would take them and leave the situation where they had access to not-secret-to-me torture training to kill people. And if I was important enough that the Church wouldn't want me to leave, that sounds like leverage to say, I think everyone can wait a few years until starting their career path."
A muted look of annoyance. He'd hoped they were done discussing Risei. Is this revenge for calling the Doctor evil?
"Once I figured out how to summon the Black Keys, I would have just run away and tried to do the training anyway." He wouldn't have wanted to cause conflict with his father—far from it—but at the time he'd been absolutely convinced that being an Executor was something he had to do, the only way to 'fix' his flaw.
"That was when I was eight. Before then, it probably didn't occur to him that it would be an issue anytime soon."
A gift, really, after all, there are few things as fun as trying to explain someone's actions to an outsider observer who's always ready to assume the worse.
"Did you say something about magic users generally growing up in environments that encouraged them to be the evil scourge that needed to be wiped out." Paraphrasing. "But it sounds like there were some issues on both sides of that one. So. What sort of magic can you do?"
Executors are supposed to be emotionless tools who care only for God and duty, but the reality is a disproportionate number are psychopaths who just want a thrill and an excuse to kill (and he's not sure whether he should put himself in that category or not). He also doesn't know if he would put them on quite the same level as the mages, but he can see where Fitz is coming from.
"I learned exorcisms and other 'cures' for supernatural ailments from the Church," he explains. "But there is also 'heretic magic,' which I learned from my teacher. Under him, I studied alchemy, spiritual evocation, summoning, divination, necromancy, and healing.
"That makes sense. It's like how a lot of surgeons are psychos. Detachment or something. I know the rest, but what's spiritual evocation? Because I thought that was summoning shit." But summoning is also n the list.
Is that it? He never thought of healing as about detachment. He thought it was supposed to be about reducing suffering—never mind that the type of healing he practices is actually a cursing technique that can cause excruciating pain.
"There's overlap, but spiritual evocation includes a lot more than summoning."
As far as he can tell, they're just split off into different subjects due to politics at the Clock Tower.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2022-09-23 06:19 am (UTC)Not yet, anyway. He's obviously still a time bomb. But as long as he's on this ship, all he can do is delay the inevitable disaster. Not out of hope of salvation or fear of annihilation, but simply because he's morbidly curious to see if he can endure long enough to graduate an inmate and get a deal.
Tik-Tok would call him a miserable slave, but Tik-Tok is just another Gilgamesh trying to manipulate him. He won't fall for it.
"That's why I said I couldn't argue against it if it's all that makes you happy. It's actually logical to me. It'd only be emotional if you were being overly hasty." He honestly can't tell with Fitz.
He still doesn't believe the Doctor is good or that Fitz wouldn't hang around him if he were evil, but he keeps quiet about that for now.
no subject
Date: 2022-09-23 06:39 am (UTC)"Which wasn't particularly his fault. I know it's hard to imagine, but I wasn't actually very good at making friends, back then." A little sarcastic, but also completely honest. "I was also way more of a dick. The two were related, yes, but the not having friends bit was more the reason than the consequence. Hell, meeting who you did on that other ship, you probably got a bit of a look at what I was like." The full on evil and cult stuff is new and different in the worst of ways, but the disdainful misanthropy and treating every conversation as a battle to be won...
"Traveling with the Doctor - it saved my life, and it gave me a life worth living."
He shakes his head, coming back to the present. "But, believe me, it took time."
no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 12:19 am (UTC)Maybe with hard work, Fitz could change his negative state of mind, develop healthier habits, and become content with life without the Doctor. But maybe not. There do exist some truly hopeless cases: himself, for instance. And he's not convinced Fitz isn't another one.
no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 12:27 am (UTC)"But, while basically better in every respect, there's one way that traveling with the Doctor is like being on the Barge, it allows you to experience whole new worlds. Except for real, not made up or the weird society of this ship. You get people here who clearly have never conceived of anything other than how they lived, and so this is all a big revelation. I wasn't that stunted, but a comparison can be made."
no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 12:46 am (UTC)He has no idea why Fitz is suddenly talking about other people on the Barge.
no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 12:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 01:55 am (UTC)Now he understands. Fitz is just trying to change the subject—and it's working.
"It wasn't all I did either. My father originally wanted me to be a scholar, so I also studied and went to university." When he was 12. "After that, I traveled."
And not just on missions to kill mages. He had a privileged life, with a loving father and many opportunities.
no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 02:06 am (UTC)He shakes his head.
"I'm not saying you wouldn't be fucked up without that, I'm saying that that doesn't have a bearing on whether or not it was wrong to have a kid do that. By which I mean it was definitely wrong."
no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 02:38 am (UTC)Immorality in the name of morality is the whole point of the Executors. It doesn't make any sense, but he's known that for a long time.
no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 02:48 am (UTC)The Church does a lot of things that are wrong, and it doesn't sound like Kirei's dad had been any better.
no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 05:25 am (UTC)He gives Fitz an icy look and explains, "He was already over fifty years old when I was born. He had no other children, no other hope of an heir. He wanted me to be a scholar, a researcher like himself, but instead I chose to chase war zones and test God. Do you think he was thrilled about that? Do you think he didn't try to control me or tell me 'no?' Do you imagine I was a particularly easy child to deal with? Do you think you'd do any better with such a child?"
He literally cringes, thinking about his past self.
"I just did what I wanted. There was nothing he could do about it, so he saw what he wanted to see because he loved me."
His voice is filled with misery and disgust.
no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 05:39 am (UTC)"Well, first off, I wasn't calling your father a failure because I'm looking at you. I said that it was fucked up for him to let a ten year old be a secret assassin for the Church. Which is true, no matter the rest of it. I mean, I don't think I'd do particularly well with a child, which is why I don't have any. There's a lot of responsibilities in having a kid, and I don't find 'having an heir' a compelling point."
In fact, he would list that as a fucked up reason to have a kid, personally.
"Being fucked up doesn't mean he didn't love you. Hell, I don't even think the fact that he constructed a version of you that wasn't overly accurate means he didn't love you, though I don't know if you'd agree with me on that one. Everyone does that, to greater or lesser extent."
no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 04:06 pm (UTC)... And because Risei was a man of deep faith, who trusted God to keep Kirei safe. But he can guess what Fitz would say about that.
"As for whether or not he still would have loved me if he'd known the truth, I'll never know."
There's regret on his face, as well as slowly unspooling rage. He wanted to be the one to kill him. That was true during the breach, and it was true in real life too.
no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 05:14 pm (UTC)It's a genuine question, he can imagine a number of different responses, depending on time and place and number of secret murder branches the Church has.
"Also, just going back a moment, putting you aside, were are agreed that using 'normal' kids as assassins is wrong, right?"
no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 10:08 pm (UTC)Himself aside.
The other question is a little more complicated.
"The Church doesn't just rip children from the arms of their parents, if that's what you're wondering. They normally wouldn't want children as young as I was, but I proved myself by completing the training. After that, it was entirely up to me what I wanted to do. If my father had gone to them before that and said he forbid it, though? I honestly don't know. I can't even say for sure that he didn't."
no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 10:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 10:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 10:43 pm (UTC)"And this whole assassin stuff is secret, right. So how did you learn about the training?"
no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 10:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 11:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-09-24 11:37 pm (UTC)"Once I figured out how to summon the Black Keys, I would have just run away and tried to do the training anyway." He wouldn't have wanted to cause conflict with his father—far from it—but at the time he'd been absolutely convinced that being an Executor was something he had to do, the only way to 'fix' his flaw.
"That was when I was eight. Before then, it probably didn't occur to him that it would be an issue anytime soon."
no subject
Date: 2022-09-25 12:01 am (UTC)"Did you say something about magic users generally growing up in environments that encouraged them to be the evil scourge that needed to be wiped out." Paraphrasing. "But it sounds like there were some issues on both sides of that one. So. What sort of magic can you do?"
no subject
Date: 2022-09-25 12:53 am (UTC)"I learned exorcisms and other 'cures' for supernatural ailments from the Church," he explains. "But there is also 'heretic magic,' which I learned from my teacher. Under him, I studied alchemy, spiritual evocation, summoning, divination, necromancy, and healing.
"Healing is the only one I have any talent for."
He frowns, aware of the irony.
no subject
Date: 2022-09-25 12:59 am (UTC)"That makes sense. It's like how a lot of surgeons are psychos. Detachment or something. I know the rest, but what's spiritual evocation? Because I thought that was summoning shit." But summoning is also n the list.
no subject
Date: 2022-09-25 01:44 am (UTC)"There's overlap, but spiritual evocation includes a lot more than summoning."
As far as he can tell, they're just split off into different subjects due to politics at the Clock Tower.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From: